FROM ABBOTSFORD TODAY: Did Jesus exist ? Was there a historical figure named Jesus? Did Jesus the man really exist or was he a myth.

This question and others will be debated by two experts in their fields September 20th in Room B101 at the University of the Fraser Valley (UFV) from 2:00 to 5:00 pm.

Dr. Richard Carrier has a PhD in Ancient History from Columbia University and he will debate Michael Horner, Philosopher and Christian apologist.

Edited 08/14/2014

Gerda Peachey
16 hours
Abbotsford Atheists should at least attempt to play fair, though without a base in God, who alone gives us motivation to live on a higher plane, I guess there is no compelling reason to do anything beyond, “eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow I die.”
But if they want a real debate, with a quality debater, arguing for God, who tells us throughout Scripture that His word is truth, then they should at least chose someone who actually believes the Bible.
Last I knew, Michael Horner does not believe the Genesis account of creation, as the Creator himself has recorded in His word. Michael, joins the long list of ‘academics’ who compromise God’s revelation, in order to be accepted by the ‘wise’ of this fallen world.
Evolutionists MUST have millions and billions of years, in order to prattle their ever evolving ‘just-so’ stories of how we came to be.
The straight-forward reading of Genesis does not leave room for those imagined long-ages.
For anyone interested in seeing the diametrically opposed the Biblical account of creation ex nihilo versus the unscientific imaginings of ‘slime growing up to become scientists’, see Richard’s lecture, ‘Theistic Evolution: Can This Marriage Be Saved? ….. see link,
Michael Horner may be a Christian, but he seriously compromises the word of God, so expect pablum, not a real dinner at this debate.

replied:11 hours
Richard Carrier is a Historian our group has been looking to bring in for some time. He has a new book coming out
in which he questions the historicity of Jesus. Rather than just present his view we thought it would be interesting to present two opposing arguments for and against the historicity of Jesus.
The question for this debate is Did Jesus Exist? Michael was gracious enough to agree to support this claim and debate Richards thesis in his book.
If you are interested in setting up any other events or debate topics please contact one of us at FVASH and we would be happy to discuss for a future event.

Gerda Peachey
replied:3 hours
Hi Jeff: The primary historical record of the Lord Jesus Christ is in the Bible. The Old Testament looks forward to the coming of the Messiah, the Saviour of the world. But why would anyone take the Old Testament seriously, if the first two chapters are not true?
Michael Horner, along with many ‘learned’ scholars from Trinity Western, and Regent College, will pontificate about the Genesis account being ‘allegorical, or lovely poetry, or……….. whatever the learned decree it to be. But Genesis is clearly not meant to be taken as allegory or poetry. It is God telling us of his astounding work of creation. He spoke the world into existence, and He could not make it clearer that he did so in 6 literal days, some 6, maybe as much as 7 thousand years ago.
Is that a miracle? Obviously. Read the all over the map accounts of evolution. Are they miraculous. Oh yes, only their scenarios require untold numbers of miracles, stuff we never see happen in real life. Stuff that does not fit into testable, repeatable, verifiable, falsifiable predictable – hard data science. Miracle upon miracle ‘anomalies’ are needed to keep evolution afloat.
So when Christians like Michael Horner compromise Genesis to accommodate the looooooooong ages that evolutionists must be given, while distorting the clear reading of Scripture, I cannot respect his ability to defend the truth of God in a lecture about atheism versus Christianity.
Did Jesus Christ, Emmanuel, God with us come in history, to take a human body, so that he as a historical human could die on Calvary for the sins of all humanity? Yes Jesus did that.
If Genesis is not historical, there was no need for the Saviour to leave the glory of heaven to die this terrible death on our behalf.
Genesis tells us of our being created perfect, in the image of our God and creator. Genesis describes our original parents sin, our loss of innocence, our loss of Eden, and God’s terrible wrath against a world of rebellion, resulting in a world-wide catastrophic flood.
Michael Horner and his ‘learned’ brethren compromise the clear word of God when they try to inject millions and billions of years into the Genesis record, to please the evolutionists, (who sneer at such compromisers)
Sure, if you ever want an honest debate between your atheist pick and a true Biblical apologist, let me know. Set a date and I’ll ask Richard to meet with you.

replied:2 hours
Your response is confusing. Why bring up evolution? It is not a topic being debated nor does it have any relevance to it.
I am not 100% sure what information Richard and Michael will use in their arguments but I suspect they will likely not refer to the Old Testament. But I am intrigued by you reference to it. I thank you for setting me straight. ne thing I am not clear on, perhaps you could help. Since Genesis is the account of the creation of all things, what did God creat first ? Man or the animals?

Gerda Peachey
replied:4 minutes ago
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Hello Jeff: Here is the topic of your debate,,,,,,”Did Jesus exist ? Was there a historical figure named Jesus? Did Jesus the man really exist or was he a myth.
This question and others will be debated by two experts in their fields…..”
Jesus Christ is God come to earth in Christ. The Bible is his written account of the creation of all things, including your two mere mortals, who will both hold forth on a topic far beyond their ken.
But Michael will pretend to be the defender of truth, while having seriously crippled his defence of the revelation given to us by God, by knuckling under to the pressure to accept vastly long ages for the creation, ages that are contrived and injected into the text in the hope that the secular world will be appeased by this cowardly compromise.
The so-called science backing billions of years of time is based on the need to bolster the theory of evolution. First there was nothing and then IT exploded. Somehow, someway, somewhere proto-life came into being from non-life. Somehow little proto-life pulled up its little sockies and by might and main and luck and …….. well miracle upon miracle transformed itself and things just miraculously kept defying any and all real science to finally arrive at the pinnacle of all fact defying science to …… US! Kazillion, bazillion unseen, unexplainable, unrepeatable miracles contrived by materialistic evolutionists, in their desperate attempt to remove God from his throne.
Takes FAITH to believe in those bazillion miracles, and it takes FAITH to believe in our all-wise, all-powerful, everywhere-present God.
Guess what? That makes both sides RELIGIOUS. Only Christianity produced some of the world’s finest scientists, because they saw in nature, in the heavens, in the microscopic word the hand of an awe-inspiring creator, and they wanted to study his works.
Not only is this question of evolution versus creation, relevant to any debate about the existence of Jesus Christ, who alone can save us from our lost estate and separation from our creator God,……Genesis to Revelation is central to any such discussion.
The answer to your question is found in Genesis. God created all plants, animals and fish before creating man, in his own image on day six. Mankind is God’s crowning glory, created to rule over the earth. Only when we walk with the Lord, in the light of his word can we begin to fulfill his mandate for our lives.